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Trainee Trouble: Who's Training Who?
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story
>You
are absolutely correct that we certified and experienced appraisers are paying
the trainee to learn the business rather than the other way around. It was
difficult for me to train my own son, who is a quick learner, and pay him a
reasonable wage on top of it. I can tell that other appraisers who have
"trainees" are not teaching them what they need to know but sending
them out to muddle through. I choose not to train anyone else for the reasons
stated in your story and wonder who thought of this method of business. If you
think of anyone else with apprentices, the relationship certainly does NOT work
in this way. - Nancy Quillen
> I have tried for four years to train someone. Most are not willing to work. None
have followed through to even complete the course after they paid for it. Due to
the fact that I work out of my home, I do feel nervous about who works with me.
- Vana Bailes
>
Regarding trainees and mentors, the program as currently structured is a sham.
Mentors accompanying trainees on every inspection is ludicrous overkill. For
basic, residential appraisals, any mature, intelligent adult should be able to
perform inspections on their own after three properties. This can be
demonstrated to a qualified instructor. In my 12 years of experience, I have
never seen a mentor go on more than two inspections with a trainee. It is common
knowledge that the requirements are excessive. As
far as mentoring goes, all mentors ever taught me was how to hit the number and
ignore deficiencies. This is the real world of appraisal. Untrained and
unmonitored mentors take advantage of trainees any way they can. The greatest
improvement one can make to the system is to eliminate "mentoring"
entirely, as well as the Trainee designation. Residential real estate appraisal
is a semi-skilled trade, requiring minimal education and college-level
performance testing. Any person with a college degree should be able to hit the
ground running and hire a mentor as a consultant when they are unsure of how to
proceed. It's time for the appraisal industry to grow up. Move the education to
an impartial, non-profit institution and eliminate the excessive hand-holding
requirement. In addition, independent appraisers need to be audited on a regular
basis by an independent government agency just as auto repair shops and
restaurants are. Appraisal fraud is rampant due to lack of policing and it's not
trainees who are the violators. It's time to spray the water on the fire, not on
the smoke. - Stephen G. Bishop
>
As a business owner and trainer of more than eight trainees, it would be a great
help if they had at least 50 to 75 appraisals completed before looking for
a mentor; even if they did mock appraisals in a classroom and field situation.
It would be much less time consuming to train them. - Wendy Woodard
>
I learned how to measure and inspect houses when I was hired as a county
appraiser. I had already sold real estate, had a degree in interior design (so I
knew how to read plans and the elements of design) and had worked in the
planning department. They paired me with an experienced appraiser for a
couple of months in the field, provided good continuing education and paid for
one course a semester while I worked toward a 10 course post baccalaureate
certificate in real estate and land development. I see no reason why this can't
be taught in school- how to measure properly, elements of construction, how a
house is built, etc. This seems much more sensible than having to learn as
a trainee, for the reasons stated in the article. - Catherine Baxter
Trainee’s
Perspective
> I am now a
certified residential appraiser. While doing my work as an assistant, my
supervisory appraiser would always accompany me and the other trainees on our
assignments and review our work before letting it go out of the door. At our
office, we know this is not the norm. We know many "supervisory
appraisers" who let their trainees go on assignments themselves and just
sign off on their work. We also know of several certified appraisers who
sign reports for their kids who never even viewed the property or completed the
assignment. A big problem is that certified appraisers are afraid of training
their future competition. Out of four trainees in our office, only one ventured
out on their own after getting certified. The rest of us feel loyalty to the
person who trained us and allowed us to get our certification under his
supervision. He does pay us a generous percentage of each appraisal and all
office expenses are his. In other words he puts up with most of the BS. I feel
loyal to him and I think the majority of trainees would feel some kind of
loyalty to the person who mentored them. But of course, not all will. –
Jan Andter
> I recently passed my state test. Now that my two year
"training” period is completed, I can add comments from the trainee side
when it comes to mentors. My initial contact with his firm was only with an
office manager. I received an appraisal that day and went on my way. Mr. Mentor
never went out with me until several months later when he took us on a
commercial appraisal. Mr. Mentor never went out with me on one residential
appraisal. Most of my feedback came through a very experienced but unlicensed
office assistant. Over that period of time, Mr. Mentor was rarely in the office
and rarely returned phone calls in a timely fashion, as he was too busy
with other companies he had set-up (companies that he eventually shut down due
to financial problems). He has since moved from the state but still has trainees
handling the appraisals without his input, and has no problem having his
local office sign his name as the supervising appraiser on URARs, qualifying
that he has inspected the properties. Add to that, bounced checks for work
that was done and not being paid anything for two months, and it is quite
apparent that Mr. Mentor has some serious ethical problems.
The
issue comes down to this: unless ethical, caring and professional appraisers
are available for trainees, we are forced to go to schmucks like this for our
hours. The many veteran appraisers who are not part of the learning process and
who allow their peers to run these appraisal mills have to share some of the
blame for the problems this profession faces. We are forced to put up
with whatever whims Mr. Mentor chooses, and our option is put up with it or
leave. But to where?
I know that there is a problem with trainees stealing clients upon licensure and
no one wants to lose money, however legal agreements are enforceable. Let's face
it, if someone wants to steal, there is usually not much reasonable people can
do about it except to protect themselves legally and rectify it legally. I
agree that something should be done. On the other hand, setting up an
appraisal school to obtain hours, likely at the cost to the trainee, will
prevent many from obtaining a license. It's been hard enough surviving
financially as it is and I can't imagine how possibly taking an extended
period of time for training school without some pay could be done. I
believe that experienced appraisers should be encouraged to take on a trainee
with the knowledge that it will affect their bottom line adversely initially but
should help it as time goes by. Sure they need to protect their
business but that is not just an appraisal profession problem but a business
problem. - Mike Hoff
>
One solution is for trainees to pay their mentors. You can't go to college or
technical school without paying tuition, why expect to get a lucrative job as an
appraiser without paying more than the nominal fee it costs to get your 75 hours
of training? My last trainee was paid $10 per hour which is not really a living
wage. He never got off the ground and I was forced to let him go after more than
a year of paying him $400 per week for doing nothing but learning how to draw a
sketch. I will be the first to say that it takes a while for “the light to
come on" but once it does the hard part is over. (In my trainee's case, the
light never came on.) A tuition type payment would help cover expenses for a
trainee who isn't producing. It would at least pay for gas money, insurance or
some other light overhead expenses. - Greg Hartley
>
We have had had about 15 trainees over the past 10 years all quit within a short
period of time, say six months to two years, and sought other jobs with
larger appraisal firms. Basically, we were training our competition. Some didn't
have the ability to appraise but most sought the higher level and larger shops
to work for. We basically were a stepping stone to the ultimate job. Get their
foot in the door, use you for a while then take a job with a larger firm that
hired them once they had some experience. We stopped taking on trainees last
Fall and plan not to take anymore on. - Larry Dobbs
>
First of all, I don’t buy the “training the competition” idea. Any
profession that can’t stand competition is a dying profession. Maybe that says
it all? I currently have one apprentice working with me and it’s true that the
current preliminary education system for trainees/apprentices does not teach
them much. Most have never seen a 1004, 2055, 1025, etc., don’t know anything
about how to conduct a sales study to determine market reactions to elements of
a property, think Marshall & Swift is a comedy team, NADA means nothing (in
Spanish) and have never been inside the County Assessor’s office!
The current system for apprentices is reminiscent of the medieval guild system;
most apprentices work for little or nothing, are more often than not used for
slave labor and have to sandwich their appraisal hours in with another job. Many
come away from the “training” experience with not much more information than
they started with. An experience school such as you mentioned would be a great
benefit to the whole system. - George Gunning
Inspector’s
Perspective
>Your story states: “While the laws in each state are unique, many
require mentors to accompany trainees on all assignments during at least the
beginning stages of their field training (typically 2,000 hours).” Is 2,000
hours correct? That seems unrealistic and objectionable. That's just a week or
so short of a full year at eight hours a day. No single person in business could
possibly afford to train someone to that extent, especially when that someone is
not an employee but will become the competition. I sure wouldn't and I certainly
don't fault anyone else who doesn't, either. - Russell Ray, HomeTeam Inspection
Service.
> Over the years, I have had many trainees. In the old days they were
different. They came into the business to be an appraiser. Now they are
motivated by the huge money the schools tell them they can make. I have hired
two trainees in the last year. The first had started out (with another mentor)
doing residential work and soon realized that what he was doing was creating
fast reports using a template, function keys and automatic adjustments. Whenever
he questioned what was being done to create the "appraisal," he
received lame answers. The last straw came when appraising a sale and he could
not support the sale price without a Time Adjustment. His trainer told him,
"We do not make Time Adjustments, underwriters will not accept them."
It was at that point he called me. I told him that was complete BS and taught
him how to do pairings and/or use published statistics to prove or support the
adjustment. Within days, he realized he had to leave in order to learn
appraising. -Steven R. Smith, MSREA, MAI, SRA
> Sometimes I get
discouraged because I know that I am taking my trainees down a path that not
many appraisers go. I know how we prepare reports is time consuming. It will
always be a balancing act when trying to obtain information as to what is
important to know and what is not. Read USPAP and FNMA to know what standards
you will be held to. Do not go by what I say! While I always believe I am right,
the ultimate test is always USPAP and FNMA because those are the standards you
will be held to, not mine. You must decide for yourself about just about
everything I have taught you.
- Leslyn Georgis
>
I have read with great interest the story on trainees followed by the comments
from mentor appraisers. I wondered what world some of the mentors came from.
They pay me to learn the business? In my case and many others. . .I don't think
so! All my work is checked and rechecked by my mentor. I have to make all
my own corrections and return the work for final check and signature. I was
constantly grilled on where I got my information and have to support all of my
adjustments. Sure, I make my share of mistakes but finding them and pointing
them out to me is the mentor's job. If a mentor doesn't want to do this, what
are they teaching me for? Apparently, many of the mentors commenting in your
story are teaching for all the wrong reasons. (It's the money, stupid!) The
mentors griped about the costs involved in hiring a trainee. Who are they
kidding? I had to set up my own office at home, buy my own computer, supplies,
software, use my car, gas and insurance. Nobody is giving me a free
ride!!! The mentors get 60 percent of the profit, even on accounts I own
and have set up myself. It is ludicrous to state that the mentor pays me. n
fact, I pay the mentor 60 percent of all the work I do. I work hard and have learned
the trade. I know of several trainees who have learned the trade under similar
conditions. I put in a huge amount of hours for the 40 percent I receive. Sometimes,
in the beginning, I couldn't break even with the costs involved in
operating my own business on 40 percent of the billing. But I was taught that
anything worth doing isn't going to be easy!
For
the most part I love every minute of it. I was raised to work for my share in
this world and didn't expect anyone to hand me my license on a silver
platter. However, I am glad I have had the great experience with the two
mentors that I work for. I pity the trainees who had to endure the 2,000 hours
working for the whining, cheap, unappreciative mentors in your recent
story. These mentors are the true embarrassment to this great field, not
the trainees who have fallen victim to them. - Thomas G. Sadler
> I enjoyed your article and the responses
regarding trainees and did not realize how fortunate I was to be employed by an
incredible mentor. When I decided to
get into single family appraising after a 25 year career as a pension fund
consultant, where I invested billions of dollars in commercial real estate, I
thought I knew everything there was to know about real estate. After all, in
addition to my professional experience, I had majored in real estate in college,
and had taken five Appraisal Institute courses. The
best thing that ever happened to me was to be employed by a State Certified
Appraiser who had been trained to do appraisals "by the book."
There are no such things as "automatic" adjustments, and even
after completing approximately 50 appraisals, it still takes me several
re-writes to have the appraisal pass her standards. As for inspections, she
accompanies me on every one because that is what is required (at least in
>
I enjoyed the comments from both mentors and trainees. In
I
try to give my students some practical knowledge along with appraisal theory.
I get them started on things like inspections and drawing sketches, comp
searches and tell them to go out and practice all these things on their own.
The motivated ones do this; the ones who will only do it if someone is paying
them won't be a good employee prospect. - Janine Campeau Ewald
>
Appraising has the same problems as other businesses/vocations. Some
supervisors don't know how to supervise. Some instructors don't know how to
instruct. Some students have no idea what they are doing or where they are
going. The licensing rigs and rules assume that both mentors and trainees are
basically stupid, slow learners, and corrupt. There is no flex in the
program: one size fits all. If
we cross trained many competent appraisers to be instructor pilots, no one would
ever solo, and few would ever accept student pilots. And, there would
still be some who simply handed keys to the student and said "YOYO" -
you're on your own. Having trained both pilots and appraisers, I can assure you
there are no cookie cutters. Each student is different and requires
different emphasis and attention to different aspects of the job. Some are
a long term danger to themselves and should be "washed out" of the
program. Some are fast learners and it's a challenge to refrain from boring
them. The push for more hands on instruction is a great idea. However, it would
work better if we had courses for some of the mentors on how to supervise and
instruct while increasing profits. - Walter H. Humphrey, IFAC
>
Too many people are attracted by the huge $$$ they hear being bragged about by
ignorant form-fillers. When I was in my first year of appraising, I was really
fast. We were expected to do three per day and were paid incentives to do more.
In my 13th month, I did 129 reports (before drivebyes), SFR's, Condos and 2-4s.
>
I am a certified residential appraiser with a company in